My guest today, Kari Hong is an assistant professor at the Boston College law school and an expert on US asylum policy and law. As you can imagine, we have an extended conversation about the tragedy unfolding at the Southern US border, where the Trump administration has mandated the separation of migrant children from their parents in order to deter them from claiming asylum and expedite their removal from the country.  This is inhumane, barbaric and as Kari Hong explains, not in compliance with both the laws and tradition around seeking asylum in the United States. She does a good job of putting this new family separation policy in the context and history of how the US has typically handled claims of asylum. And a little more than halfway  through this conversation we get to what I think is the heart of the matter: that separating children from their parents at the border is designed to force parents to enter a guilty plea to a misdemeanor offense which cuts off their ability to claim asylum.