In the hierarchy of the State Department the Secretary of State, of course, sits on top. Below the Secretary of State is the Deputy Secretary of State and below the Deputy Secretary is the number three post at the state department, the Under-secretary of State for Political Affairs.  According to a recent report in Bloomberg by the journalist Nick Wadhams, Paula Dobriansky has be tapped to serve in that number 3 spot. Wadhams cites three sources "familiar with the decision," though neither Dobriansky nor the white house have commented at time I'm recording this.  If, indeed, Paula Dobriansky becomes the Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs she will be the highest ranking official in the Trump administration who has appeared on this very podcast, so I thought it would be worthwhile to revisit my conversation with her. We spoke in June 2015. At the time, Dobriansky was at Harvard having having served in the George W. Bush administration as Undersecretary of State for Democracy and Global Affairs.  In our conversation, we spend a good deal of time discussing her background, her academic interests, and her career serving in four administrations. She is of Ukrainian descent and entered college interested in studying the Soviet Union. She earned her PHD writing about Soviet foreign policy and was a well regarded Sovietologist and later Russia expert.  We kicked off discussing what at the time was an escalating situation in Ukraine before having a longer conversation about her career.  What I find interesting looking back at this interview in the context of her possibly joining the Trump administration is that she comes from a fairly traditional Republican foreign policy background. She's consistently opposed Russian aggression and has embraced the value of spreading democracy and human rights as in the national interests of the United States. She could probably be fairly considered to a neo-conservative. She certainly is very thoughtful and was very gracious with this interview.