“I reached out to dozens of potential mentors. The two that that changed my life are the ones who didn't give me advice upon first meeting me, but asked me questions..” –Alex Banayan

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf, Cal, and Alex discuss how Alex realized he desperately he needed help in writing his book The Third Door, how Cal Fussman came to help him with the project, and why asking questions is as essential of a mentor as is giving advice (5:30); why the vulnerability and tension of good storytelling is more essential than conveying dry facts in writing a business book, and how Cal encouraged Alex to recount a humiliating story about sending a single shoe to Warren Buffet at the behest of a bad-faith mentor (23:00); what happens when a would-be mentor gives the mentee advice out of narcissism or bad faith, and how to know when not to heed the advice of a mentor (35:00); how to find and recount the most vulnerable and appealing part of your own life-narrative, and how Cal taught himself how to tell good stories (42:00); what Cal and Alex's mentoring sessions looked like, in terms of what Cal was trying to get Alex to understand (51:00); what Cal learned from Alex as his mentor, how Alex's insights improved his career, and what older people in general can learn from younger people (56:30); and what kinds of advice Cal and Alex have for people seeking to discover and fine-tune mentor-mentee relationships (1:02:00).

Cal Fussman (@calfussman) is a journalist, author, and Writer at Large for Esquire Magazine, where he has interviewed the likes of Muhammad Ali, Mikhail Gorbachev, Jeff Bezos, Richard Branson, Robert DeNiro and hundreds of others who’ve shaped the last half-century. Alex Banayan (@AlexBanayan) was named to Forbes’ 30 Under 30, and Business Insider’s “Most Powerful People Under 30” lists. He is the author of the international bestseller The Third Door. For more about Cal and Alex, check out their websites, https://www.calfussman.com and https://thirddoorbook.com.

Notable Links:



Larry King (television host)
Warren Buffett (American investor)
Reid Hoffman (American internet entrepreneur)
Nelson Mandela (former President of South Africa)
Muhammad Ali (boxer)
Gary Vaynerchuk (entrepreneur)
Elliot Bisnow (entrepreneur)
Tim Ferriss on how to create a successful podcast (Deviate episode)
The Alchemist, by Paulo Coelho (book)
Sonia Sotomayor (Supreme Court Justice)
Charles Dickens (writer)
Fyodor Dostoevsky (author)
O. Henry (writer)
Sugar Ray Leonard (boxer)
Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer (SNL sketch)
@lukeoakvt (TikTok account)



This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, the New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. 

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