First up Justine Maillot from the Surfrider Foundation, a group of activists pushing for healthy oceans from the bottom-up. Then we speak to Davide Magnana who is trying to build an industry based on wave and tidal power, and Werner Hoyer, president of the European Investment Bank: the man Europe turns to when it doesn't have enough money to solve a pressing problem. Finally, European commissioner Karmenu Vella speaks of oceans as “a goldmine we instead treat like a landfill.” Our podcast panel this week discusses the cultural reasons why our public debates seem to be careening out of control. Our GDPR privacy policy was updated on August 8, 2022. Visit acast.com/privacy for more information.