Since 2014, Papua New Guinea has been the world’s largest tropical timber exporter: more than 70% of that is considered illegal. Timber companies continue to possess land originally owned by local Indigenous communities through legal loopholes: while the carbon market has gained popularity as an alternative source of revenue for Indigenous communities, it suffers from some of the same land rights abuses as timber extraction. For this episode of Mongabay Explores we interview Gary Juffa, governor of Oro province in Papua New Guinea, and investigative journalist, Rachel Donald. If you missed episode one of Mongabay Explores New Guinea you can find it via the podcast provider of your choice or find all the episodes of the Mongabay Explores podcast on our podcast homepage here.  Episode artwork: Loggers from Turama Forest Industries cut down a tree with a chainsaw in the 'Turama extension' logging concession, Gulf Province. These forests are being felled by Turama Forest Industries - a group company of Malaysian logging giant Rimbunan Hijau. Photo by Jeremy Sutton-Hibbert for Greenpeace.  Sounds heard during the intro and outro include the following: rusty mouse-warbler, growling riflebird, raggiana/lesser bird-of-paradise, superb fruit-dove, long-billed honeyeater, little shrike-thrush, brown cuckoo-dove, black-capped lory. Special thanks to Tim Boucher and Bruce Beehler for identifying them. Please invite your friends to subscribe to Mongabay Explores wherever they get podcasts.  If you enjoy our podcast content, please visit www.patreon.com/mongabay to pledge a dollar or more to keep the show growing, Mongabay is a nonprofit media outlet and all support helps!  See all our latest news from nature's frontline at Mongabay's homepage: news.mongabay.com or find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and TikTok by searching for @mongabay. Feedback is always welcome: submissions@mongabay.com.