"The gentle art of persuading the public to believe that they want something they don’t need", so a 1905 definition goes. Selling in 2019 is basically the same, except now there's the added by-product - yay! - of hastening planetary self-combustion.But what's it actually like selling stuff you know is bad news? Can the ad industry - increasingly staffed by the eco-anxious, after all - use its dark arts to save the planet? And is Mad Men basically a documentary?We natter to recovering ad man, and co-founder of The Comms Lab, Jonathan Wise, to find out.Sustainababble is your friendly environment podcast, out weekly. Theme music by the legendary Dicky Moore – @dickymoo. Sustainababble logo by the splendid Arthur Stovell. Ecoguff read out by Arabella.Love the babble? Bung us a few pennies at www.patreon.com/sustainababble.MERCH: sustainababble.teemill.comAvailable on iTunes, Spotify, Acast & all those types of things, or at sustainababble.fish. Visit us at @thebabblewagon and at Facebook.com/sustainababble. Email us at hello@sustainababble.fish.