In this episode Professor Thurman explains the concept of emptiness. Sometimes people think if they have an experience where things seem to melt into empty space, that it is a realization of emptiness. It is a valuable experience — as long as it’s not misinterpreted — however, it’s not a realization of emptiness. It can be called a threshold of realization of emptiness: the things that seem to be solid and differentiated melt into this sort of vast space. But then, the space itself is not there obstructing relative things that we perceive. The space itself is a space wherein all the relative things are, and that emptiness, and that space is empty of itself, which is expressed by saying “emptiness of emptiness.” So, a state of being apart from the world is itself empty, because it’s also a relational state. It’s a state into which you departed through a certain diamond-like concentration.

This episode was recorded on December 31, 2015 at the “New Year’s Yoga & Meditation Retreat” at Menla Mountain Retreat, taught by Sharon Salzberg, Robert Thurman, Carolyn Christie, & Brooke Myers.


To learn about this annual event, please visit: www.menla.us.



Emptiness of Emptiness - Ep. 50 of the Bob Thurman Podcast Photo by Jesse Sewell on Unsplash


The “Force for Good” Course, which Professor Thurman discussed in the end of the podcast, is available as a Livestream Talk Series with Q & A. ‘A Force For Good’ is a Tibet House US course to further the Dalai Lama’s contemporary world initiatives.


This on-going series was inspired by Daniel Goleman’s ‘A Force For Good: The Dalai Lama’s Vision for Our World‘.


To learn more about this year’s Force For Good Series please click the image above or visit: www.tibethouse.us.


Listen to more archive recordings from from past Robert A.F. Thurman teachings + public events please consider becoming a Tibet House US member. To learn about the benefits of Tibet House US Membership please visit: www.tibethouse.us.


The song ‘Dancing Ling’ by Tenzin Choegyal from the album ‘Heart Sutra‘ (2004) by Ethno Super Lounge is used on the Bob Thurman Podcast with artist’s permission, all rights reserved.