We had the honor of having our dear friend Jonathan Pageau host this Beyond Order lecture in Montreal on May 23rd, 2022. Jonathan opens the show by describing how he first heard (and subsequently met) Jordan. This event, then, serves as a continuation of the conversations they first had. Throughout this hour-and-a-half-long event, Dr. Peterson and Jonathan Pageau discuss perception, symbolism, values, and the relationship between perception and the cognitive scientist’s attempts to understand consciousness.—Links—Check out Jonathan Pageau’s YouTube channel:https://youtube.com/channel/UCtCTSf3UwRU14nYWr_xm-dQWebsites:https://thesymbolicworld.com (speaking)https://pageaucarvings.com (carving)https://orthodoxartsjournal.org (writing) —Chapters— 0:00 — Intro4:55 — Dr. Peterson enters the stage8:00 — Perception, Cognitive Science, and the problem of bodyless AI 11:30 — The visual cliff experiment & perceiving the world18:30 — The awe of infinity & complexity of the Heavens 21:00 — Awe, imitation, & why humans celebrate28:00 — The role of sacrifice & delaying gratification32:00 — Egyptian gods & ancient symbolism36:00 — Pyramids vs. mountains in The Bible44:00 — The cost of not aiming properly 52:30 — Bottom-up vs. top-down conceptualizations of the world57:00 — Sam Harris1:05:00 — Why the Diversity, Inclusivity, and Equity types are taking on STEM 1:10:00 — Is it possible to create values from scratch? Nietzsche, Freud, & Jung1:16:00 — Why go to church?1:22:00 — Q&A#Perception #BeyondOrder #JonathanPageau #Symbolism #Values #SamHarris Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices