This week, we bring you the live-streamed episode of the Penguin Podcast, featuring Nihal Arthanayake talking to writer, rapper and campaigner, Darren McGarvey about his most recent work, The Socal Distance Between Us.  Clear and insightful, together they discuss the roles of anger and optimism in positive social change, the power of emotional range in persuasiveness, how beneficial real life conversation is for cooperative dialogue, the class and equality issues in the U.K, and the distance that tone and inflections of speech can create. Don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode, and do leave us a review as it really does help. To find out more about the #PenguinPodcast, visit https://www.penguin.co.uk/podcasts.html. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.