In which John Heilemann talks with Steven Johnson, New York Times best-selling writer on science, technology, and their intersection with human behavior. Heilemann and Johnson discuss his latest book, Extra Life: A Short History of Living Longer, and the new four-part PBS documentary series of the same title based on the book, which explore what Johnson calls "one of our greatest achievements: the doubling of global life expectancy over the past century;" the historical roots of the anti-vax movement; the importance of networks of collaboration in discovery and what he regards as the myth of the "lone genius;" the cholera epidemic in London in the mid-1800s and what we can learn from it today; and the rarely examined environmental consequences of our great strides in public health. Johnson also shares his qualms about the possibility that medical advances might—just might—allow us to live forever. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.