Ellen Ochoa didn't get picked the first time she applied to become an astronaut--nor the second. But she eventually went to space four times. In this excerpt from the podcast Wisdom from the Top, host Guy Raz talks to Ochoa about how she became an astronaut and her career at NASA. Here is a link to the entire interview, in which they cover a lot of ground--from her love of calculus and physics to shaping NASA culture: https://www.npr.org/2021/12/07/1062084978/nasa-ellen-ochoa