Chris Eyer is a true Western polymath. He is probably best known for his work as a mule packer, in which he uses mules to transport supplies into some of Montana’s most remote wilderness areas—he documents the adventures on his extremely popular Instagram account "muledragger." But as you’ll hear in our conversation, mule packing only scratches the surface—Chris is an experienced mountaineer and climber, a former US Marine, a practicing Buddhist, a leather craftsman, and a successful electrical contractor. From his home base in Montana’s Bitterroot Valley, Chris leads a full and fascinating life, working hard and enjoying his connection to the natural world and his animals. • Chris was raised in California, and from an early age was attracted to the outdoors and adventures in wild places. On a backpacking trip during his teens, he came across a team of mules and was immediately entranced—from that moment on, he knew that he wanted to work as a mule packer. As an adult, Chris taught himself the ins and outs of mule packing, a hard-knocks method of learning that’s not for the faint of heart. But through this long and tough self-education, he established incredibly deep relationships with all of his animals-- relationships that have significantly enriched his life in many ways. • As you’d expect from someone with Chris’s diverse set of experiences, we had an extremely wide-ranging conversation. We chat about how he became a mule packer and some of the crazy and scary experiences early in his career. We cover his time in the Marines, and the lessons he learned that carry over into his daily life now. We also discuss his connection to Buddhism and his meditation practice, and how his mindful approach to life and wilderness travel keeps him and his team of animals safe in dangerous situations. Chris also explains the specifics of mules from a biological and temperamental perspective. We discuss Chris’s unique connection to legendary alpinist Conrad Anker, as well as the similarities between packing and climbing. As usual, we hit upon books, films, favorite places in the West, and much more. • There’s a ton of amazing information in this episode, so be sure the check out the episode notes. Hopefully I’ll get Chris back for a part two, because there’s still plenty to discuss. Enjoy! ••• ••• TOPICS DISCUSSED: 2:50 - How Chris describes his work 4:15 - Bitterroot Valley 6:30 - How Chris settled in the Bitterroot 8:10 - The equine “feedback loop” 8:45 - Early days riding horses 9:40 - Influenced by Conrad Anker and Alex Lowe 11:10 - First interaction with a packer 12:15 - Joining the Marines 14:00 - Studying philosophy and religious studies 16:15 - Discovering the Montana wilderness 20:10 - Lessons learned from the Marines 23:40 - Buddhism in Chris’s daily life 27:30 - Life’s constant state of change 29:30 - The way wilderness strips away people’s surface-level differences 31:30 - How to learn to meditate 34:15 - Learning the details of mule packing 36:30 - Scary early experience packing 40:30 - Detailed discussion about mules 45:10 - Misconceptions about mules 47:30 - How Chris selects his mules 50:20 - Control versus letting go 55:20 - Trip with Conrad Anker 1:00:15 - Significance of the Heart W brand 1:03:30 - Favorite books 1:06:40 - Favorite documentaries 1:07:55 - Fun activities 1:10:00 - Most powerful outdoor experience 1:17:00 - Best advice 1:19:30 - Request of the listeners 1:20:30 - Connect with Chris online