This week, the Trump Organization and its Chief Financial Officer were charged with fraud and tax related crimes by the Manhattan District Attorney as a result of a years-long investigation. In light of these new charges, Sam revisits his conversation from last fall with Andrea Bernstein, co-host of the WNYC & ProPublica podcast Trump, Inc. They talk about Trump's business operations, debts, and how the biggest lesson from both is "we pay, he wins." You can follow us on Twitter @NPRItsBeenAMin and email us at samsanders@npr.org.