On The Gist, Beto O’Rourke, the countertop candidate. In the interview, historian Rutger Bregman got in a spat with Fox host Tucker Carlson, but you wouldn’t know it if it weren’t for his own video of the incident. Fox never aired it, as Bregman accused Carlson of carrying water for billionaires and Carlson responded with profane insults. Bregman joins the Gist to give us the backstory on that, but not before laying out some of the progressive economic policies—with basis in American history—that he favors, Carlson’s disapproval notwithstanding. Bregman is the author of Utopia for Realists: How We Can Build the Ideal Worldand writes for the Correspondent. In the Spiel, New Zealand’s unity on gun control is admirable. In the big, diverse country that is the United States, things are a little more complicated.Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices