On The Gist, the NBA draft lottery. In the interview, Richard Clarke doesn’t have security clearance anymore, so on his podcast he talks to a lot of people who still do. His 10 years as a White House official gave him the bug for asking questions to sharp experts on matters of life or death—otherwise known as national security. Clarke joins us to talk about the need to make a “frenemy” out of China, the vulnerability of America’s power grid, and how president Trump could yet leave the title of “worst president ever” to George W. Bush. Clarke is the host of Future State and the author of the forthcoming The Fifth Domain: Defending Our Country, Our Companies, and Ourselves in the Age of Cyber Threats. In the Spiel, Rep. Rashida Tlaib, Palestine and the Holocaust.Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices