Learn more at www.permaculturevoices.com/151 There had always been that group of design-centric permaculturalists focused on the process, not the techniques. The Toby Hemenways and Larry Santoyos of the world, the Darren Dohertys and the Ben Falks, The Richard Perkins, and my guest today, Rob Avis. They are all just a small sample of a larger subset that's focused on permaculture a design process, and only a design process. To them it's just another tool in the toolbox. A tool that you have at your disposal that when needed and applied correctly, can make your job easier. It's through the readings and conversations with these people that I have re-embraced permaculture for what it was a intended to be, and how I initially came about it. And a big key in that return to permaculture as a tool, were the conversations that I had with Rob Avis of Verge Permaculture. Like me Rob comes from an engineering background, and he came to permaculture after having been an engineer. For him, permaculture gave him another tool to use and way to re-purpose his engineering career. Permaculture gave him a way to richen and deepen his design work and engineering versus diluting it. And it was in one of our conversations where he said something that stopped me in my tracks, and changed my paradigm on the spot. He said, "Diego, it doesn't matter what anyone is saying or doing with permaculture, no matter how irrelevant it may seem. Permaculture is simply another tool in the toolbox, and if it makes my job easier, then I will use it. Like a hammer, it doesn't matter what people are saying or claiming about a hammer, when you need to drive a nail you use a hammer, and when you, I don't pay attention." It was that simple idea of permaculture being a tool, regardless of what claims people make, it's still a tool, that really reset my perspective on permaculture. Suddenly all the bogus claims didn't matter, and I had something in my back pocket that made things easier, it was Permaculture - Another Tool in The Toolbox. Support the show at www.permaculturevoices.com/support