Session 105 The shadowing vs clinical experience debate rages on in this post. This nontrad student wants to know how many hours of shadowing she needs for her apps. This podcast is part of the MedEd Media Network. Also check out our daily podcast called Ask Dr. Gray: Premed Q&A where Ryan goes on Facebook live and answers questions. Visit our Facebook page and watch our Facebook Live around 3pm Eastern, almost everyday. Take a listen to all other podcasts including The MCAT Podcast, The Premed Years, and Specialty Stories. Special Announcement: As of this posting, OldPreMeds.org is now living on MedicalSchoolHQ.net/forums. In there, you will also see other forums including a general premed discussion for students who have questions. And if you're a nontrad with specific questions, go to the nontrad premed forum. Back to the episode today, Ryan gives his insights into a question about shadowing hours. [03:28] OldPreMeds Question of the Week: "How many shadowing hours I should have if I already have a lot of clinical hours? I have a 124 hours volunteering at a hospital, maternity and emergency. As well as more than 1500 hours working in a memory care facility. I'm moving and I'm hoping to get a job as a scribe for the Spring. But that's not determined yet." [03:55] Clinical Experience vs. Shadowing The first question is, is that clinical experience? Understand that not all volunteering at a hospital is. But let's assume this poster has all clinical experience. "Just be careful with how you express what those experiences are and try to relate them to clinical as much as possible." Shadowing is a different thing. It's a very passive experience. You are standing behind the physician. You're standing in the corner of the room and somewhere not directly involved with the patient. And you're observing. It's very passive. In some instances, the physician may ask you questions or may allow you to do exam if the patient allows you to. "The definition of shadowing is that you observe. You are their shadow." On the other hand, clinical experience entails directly interacting with the patient. You are doing things for the patient. You are doing things with the patient. You are there for the patient. These are two very different experiences. Clinical experience is very important and a lot of students skip on that because they think they need more shadowing. Clinical experience is typically more important than shadowing. But a lot of students think that since they have a lot of clinical experience, they no longer need shadowing. There is a huge difference between clinical experience and being around the patient and watching what the physician is doing. Just like being a scribe, you're interacting with the patient and with the physician. You're in the exam room filling out the charts. But you're not seeing the day to day life of a physician outside of that exam room. That's where shadowing comes into play. "You need to shadow, to follow around these physicians to see what they're doing outside of the exam rooms to get a full picture of the life of a physician." [06:35] How Many Hours Are Required So you need to shadow and you need to do clinical experience. How much? There's no number set in stone. Ryan recommends shooting for around 40 or 50 hours of shadowing and then more clinical experience. That's not a hard number though. It's not set in stone. Some schools though will state it in their website. Some say 100 hours. For instance, University of Utah would require around 12-24 hours. So it varies. Since nothing is set in stone, just get as much as you can. Don't get crazy and do thousands of hours like you see on some forums. But just get some hours. [07:23] Join Us in Our Forums Join our new forums at MedicalSchoolHQ.net/forums. There's still the nontrad premed section in there to get help from other nontrads. But if you want to join in a larger discussion, you can also do that. Links: MedEd Media Network Ask Dr. Gray: Premed Q&A Visit ou