Download In this Episode, Joe interviews Brad Burge, Director of Strategic Communications at MAPS. In this episode they discuss the Phase 3 Trial for MDMA Assisted Psychotherapy, contradictions and Expanded Access. 3 Key Points: MAPS is about to run Phase 3 Trials of MDMA Assisted Psychotherapy If MDMA passes this third phase, it will still be tricky to get insurance involved. But the cost of one series of MDMA Therapy is much cheaper than a lifetime of typical pharmaceutical drugs and therapy sessions to heal PTSD. The only reason for-profit companies haven't gotten involved before was because there wasn't a promise on their investment. Finally, for-profit companies (like Compass Pathways) are interested in advancing these medicines (Psilocybin and MDMA). Support the show Patreon Leave us a review on iTunes Share us with your friends – favorite podcast, etc Join our Facebook group - Psychedelics Today group – Find the others and create community. Navigating Psychedelics Show Notes MAPS Brad Burge is the Director of Strategic Communications at MAPS, the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies MAPS started out as just a few employees in 2009 and has grown to over 40 now Phase 3 Study They are now in Phase 3 Trials They started recruiting at 14 sites (US, Canada and Israel) and are recruiting 150 volunteers with severe PTSD Participation The Future of MDMA Assisted Therapy Breakthrough Therapy Designation The FDA categorized MDMA as a breakthrough drug for PTSD After phase 3 trials, if all goes well, it would mean that MDMA would be the drug to be used (only) alongside Psychotherapy MAPS is training therapists, counselors and social workers One way to get more people educated who are interested in this would be taking therapy interns in and having them gain credits for interning and learning alongside trained therapists Access Expanded Access is known as ‘compassionate use’, a program by the FDA that allows people to receive a treatment that is still in trials In order to administer the therapy you are required to get a DEA schedule 1 license “If there’s one thing that changes public perspective on psychedelic therapy, its individual stories of people who have been healed, transformed by or positively or even negatively affected by them in some way” - Brad They have published many studies of the trials The most recent was the Boulder study, 76% of people didn't have PTSD a year after MDMA assisted therapy Insurance won't cover expanded access, it will have to pass Phase 3 trials until insurance can be used in MDMA Assisted Psychotherapy The MDMA is a very small cost (fraction) of the total cost, it’s the hours on hours of psychotherapy that cost so much But the cost of one MDMA Therapy Session process is much cheaper than a lifetime of pharmaceutical drugs and therapy sessions to heal PTSD Argument Joe says he hears this strange argument that people say “giving soldiers MDMA just makes war easier” Brad says it's not about putting these people back into war, it's about healing the retired veterans to help them adapt back into their everyday life “MDMA Assisted Psychotherapy is going to make them a better lover not a better fighter” - Brad “If there's one commonality in psychedelic experiences, its that things are connected.” - Brad Compass Pathways Joe mentions that people are scared to see a business come in that's acting like a normal pharmaceutical company MAPS is not tied at all with Compass Pathways Out of the top two things Americans are mad about, at least one of them is the Pharmaceutical Industry Finally, for-profit companies are interested in advancing these medicines (MDMA) The only reason for-profit companies haven't gotten involved before was because there wasn't a promise on their investment Capitalism has a tendency to put profit first “Money can be used for good as well as evil” - Brad MAPS has raised over 70 billion dollars all from donations Compass owns its own