This conversation is with Jamie Wheal and Steven Kotler. Many of you will remember Steven from our conversation about flow state -- if you missed that, check out episode 16 on Ultimate Human Performance.

Jamie and Steven are the co-founders of the Flow Genome Project, which is a collection of world-class academics, athletes and artists dedicated to taking flow from the extreme to the mainstream.

I've loved being their friend and being part of their community.

Jamie and Steven are completely switched-on : smart, quick and divergent thinkers, lovers of life, and are so curious, that they embody what they're trying to learn.

This conversation has very nuanced adult themes -- so -- if you're listening with kids, maybe you'll want to consider listening to this one without them depending on however you roll.

Steven and Jamie just wrote a book together called: Stealing Fire: How Silicon Valley, the Navy SEALs, and Maverick Scientists Are Revolutionizing the Way We Live and Work.

What I hope you'll take away from this conversation is the value of exploring the edges, the value of community, and how challenging it is to really change.